Sam Harris Says There’s ‘No Workable Definition of Racism’ That Includes Joe Rogan

Atheist author, philosopher, and fellow podcaster Sam Harris defended his friend Joe Rogan this week, saying characterizations of the beleaguered Spotify star as a racist represent the reaching of “a moral dead end.”

In the latest episode of his “Making Sense” podcast, Harris talks about Rogan’s past comments and responsibility to his audience, as well as Rogan’s recent apology.

Harris has been among several names that have been brought up as part of the ongoing tidal wave of criticism and objection directed at the man who is theoretically the world’s most successful podcaster, and some of those mentions have dubiously categorized Harris as “right-wing.”

The author, however, is better known for his debates and disagreements with figures on the right, such as Ben Shapiro.

Harris has previously criticized Rogan for how he has handled guests with what one might call “unorthodox” takes on the pandemic and the science of vaccines, which is of course the topic that put Rogan and Spotify in the hot seat in the first place.

But the latest evolution of the seemingly inexhaustible chorus against Rogan involves videos related to race, about which Mediaite has extensive coverage. Harris, for his part, does not believe the offensive clips are representative of who Rogan is, and he said so in a new podcast.

In the selection above, Harris talks about the idea of Rogan as a racist, which he says anyone who has met the podcaster will know to be false.

After first going over some of the background, and Rogan’s first apology in which he said he’d do things differently on the subject of Covid and vaccines going forward, Harris addressed the second issue and apology.

“But now another controversy has erupted, for which Joe also felt the need to apologize. Someone cut together a reel of moments where Joe said the N-word on his podcast, going back 12 years, I think,” said Harris. “In the second apology, Joe made it clear that in none of those instances was he using the word as a racist slur. Rather, he was talking about the word itself about its use in comedy, and about its magically destructive properties.”

Before going on to analyze the apology and the nature of the controversy itself, he first spoke about Rogan “as a person.”

“Anyone who knows him – and you don’t have to know him personally, you can just be a fan of his podcast because what you see there really is Joe – anyone who has spent dozens of hours listening to Joe’s podcast knows to a moral certainty that Joe is not racist,” he said.

“And there really is nothing more that needs to be said on that point,” he continued. “There is simply no workable definition of racism that includes Joe Rogan, and insofar as there is an enduring problem of racism in our society, people like Joe are not a symptom of it. Rather, they are the cure.”

“Joe is an extremely ethical person, and he has an extraordinarily large and diverse set of friends and social contacts. It would be hard to imagine someone less likely to actually care about the race of another human being than Joe,” Harris added. “So if Joe Rogan is your version of a racist, you have reached a moral and political dead end.”

At that point, Harris moved into dissecting the apology and the controversy as it exists in the first place. He said that although he understands why Rogan felt it necessary to be so apologetic, pointing out that even the White House “came after him,” but that it was nevertheless a “mistake” to disavow his past remarks to that extent.

Harris spoke about the N-word video but did not get into specifics about past comments from Rogan. More have come to light in the last few days. Mainly he focused on the ideas and definitions, and the motives of both Rogan and his critics.

On those points, and for Harris’ take on the responsibility Rogan has to the public, the entire episode is embedded below. Harris concluded the episode with thoughts on apology and forgiveness.

A sincere apology is a moral good, as is the forgiveness with which it is often met. We want to live in a world where people offer sincere apologies. And we want to live in a world where sincere apologies are generally accepted. This is borne of the recognition that no one is perfect. Each of us is a work in progress. Everyone is growing and forgiveness itself is one of our highest virtues. Forgiveness is a fucking miracle. And we want a culture that makes us better at both seeking it and bestowing it. Not one that views every apology as a source of shame and as an invitation for further scorn.

“Asking and receiving forgiveness is how we repair our relationships, and the fabric of society itself,” said Harris.

Here is the full episode.

Listen to the audio above courtesy of “Making Sense” on Spotify.